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In Your Honest Opinion, Is This Bad Poker Play?
Sharita-Kava, 2008-04-14 07:46:09
I was in a live tournament where everyone starts with 6000 chips with 30 min blinds starting at 25/50. the blinds were 200/400 and i had 5200 chips left. I called with KJ, just one other player in the hand. the flop came 10 Q 7, rainbow. he bet 600, i called. on the turn came a 7. he bet 1000, i had to call but i didn't want to lose and only be left with 3000 chips, so i went all in. he thought about it for a while and called. He showed KQ and i hit the ace on the river to give me the straight. He was annoyed and said "as usuall, sh*t play wins." do u think it was bad play to go all in with only an up and down straight?
2008-04-15 02:13:02 Vikki-Hicks wrote:
- I dont think it's a bad play.
- I either wouldve folded on the turn if I had decided not to chase or went all in like you did if I thought I had to gamble with my semi bluff (if you sense weakness on your opponent's end).
2008-04-14 09:44:02 Modesto-Stone wrote: hard question to answer, obviously it worked. with that being said, i am assuming he was one of the blinds and there were no antes at this stage. so, if my assumption is correct there was 1000+600 in the pot when it was your turn to act on the flop, if you call for 600 that makes the pot 2200. you were 200 (one small blind at this stage) shy of getting 4 to 1 on your money, which is what you need to be mathimatically correct to make a call when you flop an open ended straight. you were getting close to the required odds to make the call, however, remember this, odds are there to determine long term gains and in a tournament, there are many who believe that odds don't always aply simply because short term (the duration of the tournament) gains are what matters. you need to get better odds for your money on action on the turn because your chances decrease with one card to come on hitting your outs. here is why there is an argument against using implied odds in a tournament. you were obviously under average for chip stack in the tournament at this stage, you had less than the starting stack. i hope you were playing to win as opposed to surviving the bubble, and if you were playing to win, you needed to chip up by a good bit. at this stage, (once again assuming the antes had not kicked in) you had an m of less than 10, in other words you couldn't survive 10 rounds of blinds. the only mistake i would argue you made was not raising preflop if you were late in possition, or conversly limping with those holdings to see a cheap flop. when you are below an m of 10 and you 4 flush or hit an open ended straight on the flop you are going to be committed. you gambled and got lucky. with that being said, you had to gamble once your m got that low. pot odds are out the window. an m of 10 is normally considered the point where you are in danger, and once that level is met, you need to act, and act quick. the reason the concept of m has been developed is to determine at what stage your chip stack has become too small to be an affective weapon and to determine at what stage you are in danger of being put out even playing solid poker. because of what you had, i would say, other than just calling the blind, you made the right play, you should have raised. as for the comment of your opposition in the hand, forget about it, while you obviously didn't know whether you played it right or not at the time, you did play it right. i would suggest you read harrington on hold'em (all volumes) which is by far the most in depth work on proper tournament play.
2008-04-14 13:10:47 Stanley-Fye wrote: The only time you need to push all of your chips in the pot on a draw is if you are short stacked and about to be blinded out. If you are going all in, its much better to have a made hand. Also once the second 7 came out, that brings out the full house possibility. 1 in 5. That means if you make that same move, 4 out of 5 times you lose, statisticaly.Putting your tournament life on the line. But it worked out. About a 20% chance. Probably equally bad play on both parties. Yes, it was a bad play. If you are going all in on a straight draw, and hes sitting on a full house, your drawing dead already because a full house beats a straight. You on a draw and him with one pair, even though it was top pair. You had enough chips and the blinds were low enough you could of folded and picked a better spot. You didn't know for sure at the time, but you had 8 outs. The right play isn't always the best play, and the best play isn't always the right play. It's worded that you went all in on the draw, not all in with the straight already. Thats not great odds. If you do not hit your straight you are left with King high. Wait til you have a great hand and theres only the chance of 1 or 2 hands that beat you if you don't have the nuts.
